Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Quote from TimRoys
    Quote from xLutinex

    The Oak Walker still have -75% aggro. If you are at -90% and doing something alone, you should increase your aggro. Tanks also need a job. Decreasing more aggro would destroy the need of a tank in some was.

    I, as a tank, never had a problem with warden pets aggro since it is at -75%


    Kind regards

    After the last update, the pet's damage has increased. Because of this, problems with aggro

    Again. Any Tank can easy hold the aggro.

    If you have problems doing something solo (in a MMO), use an other rune to increase your aggro.


    MMO is for playing together and teamplay and you should/need to pay attention if your tank is lower equipped


    Kind regards

    How many warden/druids in your party and how often? I not talk about any other wardens. So, now I should wear +aggro rune if I want to go at some solo/duo instance to make my pet not die? Sorry, but it sounds ridicilous. Cenedrils also have -75 aggro and never had that problem that he was tanking boss because of his aggro, also not had that problem in solo/duo runs with warden/druid Oak Walker before, he wasn't tanking boss or pack of mobs when Power of The Oak was active . It's happened after last patch. Why decreasing aggro would destroy the need of tank? I am not telling to decrease mine aggro, I am telling to decrease warden/druid pets aggro or at least to let him have the same aggro as I have. It's not normal that he have more aggro than I do. If it could be mine aggro problem - I prefer to see boss looking at me, not on my pet and let him attack / kill me ^^

    Quote from Lola
    Quote from xLutinex

    The Oak Walker still have -75% aggro. If you are at -90% and doing something alone, you should increase your aggro. Tanks also need a job. Decreasing more aggro would destroy the need of a tank in some was.

    I, as a tank, never had a problem with warden pets aggro since it is at -75%


    Kind regards

    How many warden/druids in your party and how often? I not talk about any other wardens. So, now I should wear +aggro rune if I want to go at some solo/duo instance to make my pet not die? Sorry, but it sounds ridicilous. Cenedrils also have -75 aggro and never had that problem that he was tanking boss because of his aggro, also not had that problem in solo/duo runs with warden/druid Oak Walker before, he wasn't tanking boss or pack of mobs when Power of The Oak was active . It's happened after last patch. Why decreasing aggro would destroy the need of tank? I am not telling to decrease mine aggro, I am telling to decrease warden/druid pets aggro or at least to let him have the same aggro as I have. It's not normal that he have more aggro than I do. If it could be mine aggro problem - I prefer to see boss looking at me, not on my pet and let him attack / kill me ^^

    1 warden/Druid.

    This is a MMO.

    Your Oak Walker still have -75% aggro!

    Why need more. That is ridiculous.

    Best solution: nerf damage of oak walker. It seems to do more damage than you.

    Cenedrils haven't this problem because they do not even 1/10 of oak walker damage...


    Irony: i have a problem as knight to do aggro. Please give knights perma +1000% aggro thx...

    Quote from Lola

    How many warden/druids in your party and how often? I not talk about any other wardens. So, now I should wear +aggro rune if I want to go at some solo/duo instance to make my pet not die? Sorry, but it sounds ridicilous. Cenedrils also have -75 aggro and never had that problem that he was tanking boss because of his aggro (...)

    In some solo farming runs I did for my ISS in the past, I used a tank cenedril that took aggro of like anything against my mage with -aggro cap. Sometimes I wanted to tank by myself, then I also put an aggro rune in my staff. I think that's not rediculous, it's normal. If you deal enough damage at some point, your aggro will be higher than your pet's, but below this point, the pet's gonna tank I guess. ;)

    Ridicilous that my pet is tanking. Some time ago after cenedrils damage was buffed they also were tanking almost every mob in ROFL, and then they got - 75 % aggro buff, and yes, warden pets it's not like a cenedrils, so why they have -75 % too?. It's not about tanks. Zyrex told right things, pet's aggro could be transfered to a master, pet it's just a pet, aggro must be on his master. This is mine opinion

    Druid/Warlock


    Last few days I tested the Druid/Warlock in rofl, inferno, hos and original content. I think the dps i fine and it's a very cool and fun class. You have to manage your nature points sustain and focus, but should always keep an eye on your mana as well.


    There is only 1 problem: you have literally nothing for fast single targets. Everything that deals more damage than like nothing, is a cast or has a decent cooldown. So maybe you could change the cast time of Earch Arrow from 2 seconds to 1 second so that it can be casted with 0.5s on targets. Also this would help to work against the massive nature points decrement/problems in AoE sections.


    Side info: For me it's a bit messy to use the Sandstorm as a ground target in my rota, since I don't use AU Kitty. So I wrote a huge macro/lua that also uses other aoe stuff and no-gcd skills as well efficiently. But still it feels bad somehow. Maybe this could changed to a targeting skill with splash damage, such as Mage/Knight lightstars or static field of general mage? I mean, it's working like okay, but could be improved I guess :)

    Quote from Zyrex

    Druid/Warlock

    So maybe you could change the cast time of Earch Arrow from 2 seconds to 1 second so that it can be casted with 0.5s on targets.

    It is already a perma 0.7s cast. Reduce its general cast to 1s mean dmg of the skill would be nerfed so this wouldn't work in endgame unless they double its current dmg.

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from Zyrex

    Druid/Warlock

    So maybe you could change the cast time of Earch Arrow from 2 seconds to 1 second so that it can be casted with 0.5s on targets.

    It is already a perma 0.7s cast. Reduce its general cast to 1s mean dmg of the skill would be nerfed so this wouldn't work in endgame unless they double its current dmg.

    I agree. With 2 Curse runes and perma Warp Charge and Setboni this cast is almost all the time near 0.5. In addition you have 2 potions and 1 skill that increase your cast speed, not to mention siege war skills so I, personally see no need for that. And if 0.7sec isn't fast enought, 0.5 won't make any difference.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Like 3
    Quote from Madox

    It is already a perma 0.7s cast. Reduce its general cast to 1s mean dmg of the skill would be nerfed so this wouldn't work in endgame unless they double its current dmg.

    I think its damage doesn't really matter at all. In burst I start with full nature power, which is regenerated through the poison combo itself. Only thing that lowers the amount permanently, is Sandstorm. So the 0.5s cast would enable the user to regenerate it better in trash. I mean, i used to heal myself with Restore Life when I was waiting for the tank or such. That felt kinda useless, better dealing smaller hits and just recovering nature points faster imo.


    Laisha Oh yes indeed, the 0.2s difference make a difference ofc. Most times my casts interrupted at 0.6s

    Quote from Zyrex
    Quote from Madox

    It is already a perma 0.7s cast. Reduce its general cast to 1s mean dmg of the skill would be nerfed so this wouldn't work in endgame unless they double its current dmg.

    I think its damage doesn't really matter at all.

    I have no words. This skill is our best dmg source in sustain unless we are full buffed. How this dmg doesn't matter?

    Quote from Madox
    Quote from Zyrex

    I think its damage doesn't really matter at all.

    I have no words. This skill is our best dmg source in sustain unless we are full buffed. How this dmg doesn't matter?

    For me it seems that only a few part of my dps come from earth arrow, most comes from the poison combo.

    331e5b236bdff564dd34709e14f7b349.png

    On screenshot you see earth arrow on 3rd place with 11% overall damage. Poisonous Arrow did that like 3-times. On bosses earth arrow has more or less the same amount of total damage.

    On 93% perma cast this class have (without extra casts skills or potions) earth arrow is better for few reasons.

    1. Is faster so less chance to lose a cast in the process.

    2. Isn't part of a combo so you don't need 4x 3s casts to get full dmg like the combo of this class require.

    3. Crits. All casts do the same dmg. If your final skill in combo isn't crit, you are fked.

    Bosses get inmune phases, mobs die fast. Right now class is designed to have a good sustained dmg aoe and single. In small partys with low dps is where class perform better (because it has no burst aoe).


    When you are buffed, your 3s spammable cast dont recover nature points. Biggest skill have 6s cd which means you can do 8-11 toxic arrows and combo will only recover 3 points, not 8-11. That is assuming boss didn't get inmune before you can finish it (I dont include mobs because you can't achieve a full combo unless you are playing alone xD).

    For me, 2s earth arrow is a great dmg resource specially in smaller partys where bosses require more then 30s to die.

    Im not against a perma 0.5s cast but, dmg need to be the same as it is now atleast or it would be a nerf.

    • Decreased Finishing Hammer 1-H hammer damage gain to 57.6%, 2-H hammer damage gain to 72%.*

    I am honestly speechless. Champion already was underperforming, why another nerf ? Especially in fast groups other classes do much more damage. I don't see why anyone would play Champion over Warden or Warrior after this change, please reconsider it.

    Quote from Serenadae
    • Decreased Finishing Hammer 1-H hammer damage gain to 57.6%, 2-H hammer damage gain to 72%.*

    I am honestly speechless. Champion already was underperforming, why another nerf ? Especially in fast groups other classes do much more damage. I don't see why anyone would play Champion over Warden or Warrior after this change, please reconsider it.

    I 100% agree! Your justification "Champion was similar to other chain wearer classes in our observations, but it was kinda overperforming if raid is fast enough to do not lose Shock Overload in certain points, therefore we are reducing its sustain while keeping burst damage same and planning to rework Shock Overload in a future patch depending on class’ state after these changes" is not consistent with the experience from Sacred and also my experience in Hades, both are end game guilds with I suspect raids that are fairly fast enough LOL


    I see 0 evidence that champ is overperforming in my raids, MANY other combos do better, I have no idea what data you are looking for, but in my raids champ is clearly not op - coupled with the placing aoe issue that was mentioned previously that does not work half the time... I disagree with the proposed change, it does not make any sense. Champ sustain is 100% not op LOL, not even close!


    On a separate subject of wd/wl:


    I asked to reconsider the sustain nerf and what do you do - you nerfed sustain even more: Essence of Poison poison damage gain decrease from 30% to 20% (10% damage nerf) AND Corruption of Nature physical damage gain decrease from 24% to 16% (8% damage nerf). The combo had sustain that was not as strong as other classes and yet you are nerfing it so much? I urge you or anyone else to show proof that the class was overperforming to warrant such nerf. This is crazy. I mentioned before, if you base your decisions on performance at lower level ini, this is not accurate as raids are mixed in terms of gear/skill, alot of ppl take it easy and dont even full buff - in my opinion only RoFL as main endgame should be used as a reference and even then gear differences should be taken into account.


    The above changes should not be implemented, they are absolutely not consistent with my experience and just like Sere I am speechless and perplexed as to why you are doing it. The champ ISS helps everyone in the raid in a similar manner, so i cant even say your suggested nerf has its origin in the new ISS. Similarly, wd ISS while superior to the one we had before, does not warrant or explain why you want to nerf wd/wl to such extent.


    Apologies for the long post, but all of this is disappointing and I strongly urge you to reconsider and not alienate the community, please listen to the feedback.

    The fact that camps or wardens aren't overpeforming in your's raids doesn't mean that they do not in other groups. for example in my guild ROFL raids what i experience rouges are overperforming as well, especially r/w and his whirlwind and r/d with his poison dots. Addition to this is that when the full golden geared r/w delt (in my opinion) OP dmg against the background of other rouges, wd/wrl from our pt without such gear was not much weaker than him.
    So the fact that something doesn't perform good in your raid pt, doesn't mean that it do not need adjustments.

    Well yes, but thats what I am saying - champ is doing worse relative to other classes/combos, not like champ is barely on top lol, champ is supposed to be sustain the way it is atm, its burst is clearly not as strong as other classes and also sustain was not as strong as some other classes/combos - all of that makes the proposed changes hard to understand, does not make sense.

    Quote from Rakot_Hades
    Quote from deszcz2

    The fact that camps or wardens aren't overpeforming in your's raids doesn't mean that they do not in other groups. for example in my guild ROFL raids what i experience rouges are overperforming as well, especially r/w and his whirlwind and r/d with his poison dots. Addition to this is that when the full golden geared r/w delt (in my opinion) OP dmg against the background of other rouges, wd/wrl from our pt without such gear was not much weaker than him.
    So the fact that something doesn't perform good in your raid pt, doesn't mean that it do not need adjustments.

    Well yes, but thats what I am saying - champ is doing worse relative to other classes/combos, not like champ is barely on top lol, champ is supposed to be sustain the way it is atm, its burst is clearly not as strong as other classes and also sustain was not as strong as some other classes/combos - all of that makes the proposed changes hard to understand, does not make sense.

    Maybe then there should be overall nerf in DMG dealt by other classes.
    What i see right now is that all changes are boosting dmg to some other classes, but this makes only whole fights more and more boring bec of too much dmg. Maybe then changes should be focused on nerfing dmg of classes that are dealing too much dmg. For example if you say that class X is weaker than class A, B and C then maybe instead of boosting class X nerf classes A, B, and C do the level of class X.

    Wd/Wl vs Ch/Wl


    I can't really tell much about this topic since I don't play chain classes, but can tell you what I saw in our runs from my perspective.

    I think Warden/Warlock is/was about 20-30% better in overall dps than Champ/Warlock, at least it was in our runs on Friday and Sunday. Some bosses just got crushed by the Warden(s) with 50kk+ hits, especially on Balton a Warden reached over 400kk total dmg, which was insane, because our other dds had equal gear.


    However Champ is much more defensive than Warden and dies much less through this potential. I don't think, Champ was/is too weak, but Warden/Warlock is definitively way too strong.

    Well, wardens always have been a monsters in burst single targets. If warden doesnt has any buffs (like Power of the Oak, savage power, ISS for dmg etc) is probably one of the weakest classes in the game.

    On the other hand champs were more like sustain dps which could keep good numbers of dmg without any buffs but on burst was behind other classes. Now Wardens keeps the same logic as it was before, but champs loosing now on sustainity dps, aoe dmg and burst dps to other classes.


    And yea, also thinking that developers should go into way: lets decrease damage output the best classes (overall) instead trying to increase ouput of inferior classes

    Wd/wl has strong burst, granted, but sustain and overall damage at least in my raids was behind several other combos - this is prior to the huge nerfs that are proposed. I also not a big fun of using Balton as a reference since lets face it, burst in rofl is hardly important while sustain dps and aoe are much more significant - the later two prior to proposed nerfs enabled combo to keep up with some other combos, but just that. Nerfs would just set it back and likely not many will bother with the combo again.


    Forgot to mention - champ got nerf on the hp side recently so not sure if it dies much less than wd :) I would say its similar haha; Furthermore, I am not saying champ needs a buff, I am just puzzled with the idea that it needs a nerf on sustain - all my experience with running on a champ suggests its sustain is not as op as other combos + burst is not great as well, changes proposed will just make champ even less attractive to play

    Priest


    In my opinion the new priest item set skill is useless. There is already a surplus of movement speed on the priest from other sources and classes.


    I would suggest to change it to enable a raid-wide usage of Group Heal for like 15 seconds with a 5 minutes cooldown. That would make much more sense. Or let it passively change the Soul Source to a raid hitting skill.