Class Balance [Patch 10.2.1.1000] & Bard

    Tried the Rogue / Priest today. And I want to say that this class is very weak, it would not be bad if every standard attack deals water damage. The skill "Kick" although the description is good numbers, but in fact it does very little damage. The "Holy Surge" skill has very low damage.

    Rogue/Warrior:


    Berserk: I would like the skill like the berserk from the warrior/rogue. The class has so little deff and then a defensive reduction by berserk means almost always death. The increased damage would also be good for the class.


    Whirlwind: Increase the second hit up to 543% like the first hit.


    Kind regards

    Warlock/Rogue:


    Soul Poisoned Fang: Turn the skill into a self-buff triggered by "shadowstab". So if you use "shadowstab" on a mob, the mob gets the debuff, which reduces resistance and does overtime damage. I would also increase the dot significantly, because the class is missing constant damage.


    Soul Raid/Shadow Step: The buff is really nice, but porting through "shadow step" is often fatal as a warlock. So an adjustment would be very good. Whether you can trigger the buff with another skill or whether you remove the teleport effect or the like would basically not matter.


    Liquidation Suffering: The skill is currently meaningless, because as a damage dealer you are not in the state of willpower construct. I would suggest changing the skill to another damage skill in the state of willpower blade or turning it unto a group support buff


    Kind regards

    Some thoughts on champion/druid:


    Field of Replenishment: Greatly reduce mana costs. If you want to use the skill not only because of the buff, but also as a healing skill, you get mana problems very quickly. Is the crit rate based on physical or magical crit value? If it is based on magic, please change it to physical. Had the feeling to criten with the healing very little, but maybe my feeling is wrong :D


    Electroction: Should also reduce the magical defense of the target


    Rune Recovery: Should also increase the casting speed. This would be advantageous if you also want to cast a "Recover". In addition, remove the mana cost when a "Rune Pulse" triggers "Recover".


    Recover: Is the crit rate based on physical or magical crit value? If it is based on magic, please change it to physical. Had the feeling to criten with the healing very little, but maybe my feeling is wrong :D


    Kind regards

    totally against it.

    Scout/Priest has a healing skill as well, but even does not scale with str or dex. It scales with heal bonus, wisdom and m-crit.

    So in my opinion m-crit is the correct way how healing skills should crit

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Recover: Is the crit rate based on physical or magical crit value? If it is based on magic, please change it to physical. Had the feeling to criten with the healing very little, but maybe my feeling is wrong :D

    I also oppose this idea. As this combo is now, it is a jack of all trades, it has tank potential, (some) dps potential, heal potential and support potential. How strong each part of that is, is dependent on what gear you are wearing, focusing this class on chain only, would be too strong in my opinion.

    There are multiple druid, priest, knight and scout combos that are designed to be played with different gear than other combos, but still can be played with their "original" gear, with less effectivity. Having a champion combo that works the same way, is totally fine in my eyes.:)


    Cheers!:thumbup:

    Think! It's not illegal yet.

    I'm just here for the drama.

    Agreed. I don't see why a class whose healing-skills scale with strength should be reliant on magical crit-rate.

    Maybe it could be changed to use the higher value. This way anyone who wants to play in healer gear still can do so.

    Scout in general:


    The Blood Arrow with 5% damage per second is performing very bad in events like Jerath.

    I would suggest to reduce the damage per second amount to maybe 1% like it is on champ/warlock


    Kind regards

    • Official Post

    We are still working on disabling all damage over time effects in Jerath event along with other balances related with it.


    Greetings

    Hi

    We have a magical knight warrior scout guardian but we don't have a magical rogue. Why? Can be change the damage of rogue / knight to mdps (element light). This will diversify the magic branch of classes. I hope this idea will get support from other players.

    Quote from Ganga

    We have a magical knight warrior scout guardian but we don't have a magical rogue. Why? Can be change the damage of rogue / knight to mdps (element light). This will diversify the magic branch of classes. I hope this idea will get support from other players.

    There is also no magical champion.


    And where is the physical mage or warlock who can wear leather?


    I think there are enough magical classes (even if only a few are currently "playable"). You don´t have to hand over a rogue combination to the magical classes. Of course, that´s just my opinion :)


    Kind regards

    Quote from Ganga

    Hi

    We have a magical knight warrior scout guardian but we don't have a magical rogue. Why? Can be change the damage of rogue / knight to mdps (element light). This will diversify the magic branch of classes. I hope this idea will get support from other players.

    I would prefer a fix or balance on wd/d, w/m, d/wl and k/m before anything xD

    Quote from Ganga

    Hi

    We have a magical knight warrior scout guardian but we don't have a magical rogue. Why? Can be change the damage of rogue / knight to mdps (element light). This will diversify the magic branch of classes. I hope this idea will get support from other players.

    A magical rogue can be made a rogue / mage. Give him a buff that will allow you to do both physical damage or magic at will. For example, as a champion can be both a tank and a dd at his request.

    i disagree with most of these ideas/suggestions, especially about buffing rogue/druid, rogue/champion and rogue/mage.

    first of all, rogue is probably one of fewest classes that has this many options to play in game as a viable dps.


    rogue/mage is probably one of the best rogue combos if it isn't best, it just matters of play style. i would place this class around r/wd in terms of burst and aoe sustain, stronger aoe burst than r/wd, and if you do the thing correctly it also has stronger single target burst. only disadvantage of this class is requiring dual tiered weapons, like rogue/warrior or warrior/rogue, or even rogue/warlock unless you need the physical attack from your statted offhand to compensate under.


    rogue/champion is a support that is strong as much as a mage/warlock in my opinion, aren't you noticing supportivity of this class while still having huge amount of burst potential? it also has plenty of aoe stuns that can't be ignored.


    rogue/druid is best aoe burst rogue so far, yes it is weak for single target sustain and not so impressive single target burst, but dealing 60kk damage per sec against 15 mob is insane and also sustain against +3 mobs is impressive as well.


    i didn't play rogue/priest yet after last nerfs so can't do a comment about it.


    how rogue/warden is being designed for chain classes when it is dealing more damage with leather gear?


    rogue/scout is like rogue/mage without gusting blade rain + chaos dagger but with perma hell blades. weaker burst constant sustain but it isn't enjoyable in my opinion so i would like to see a rework on this class.


    rogue/warlock, it was weaker than all other rogues that i tested this week, but it wasn't a disaster like everyone else complains, just reducing cooldown of buff back to 60 seconds should fix that class since it has higher single target burst than any other rogue combo as long as your physical attack is enough for the instance.


    also i don't think anyone is considering tikal mobs as a class indicator since it is a 5 year old instance.


    cheers

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Like 2
    Quote from espar91

    rogue/druid is best aoe burst rogue so far, yes it is weak for single target sustain and not so impressive single target burst, but dealing 60kk damage per sec against 15 mob is insane and also sustain against +3 mobs is impressive as well.


    cheers

    I need to disagree with that. Also rogue/champion does more AOE damage than rogue/druid. With the 70th elite Disassembly Shadow you hit twice every mob with every AOE skill and you have 5 of it. Some of the skills won't hit 15 mobs yes, but 2 of the 5 will do it and this will do many damage, that every trash group with 15 mobs does not even survive till you can do you last skill. (in our groups. I know we are full golden geared. Maybe the damage will scale in other directions if mobs are living longer)

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from espar91

    rogue/druid is best aoe burst rogue so far, yes it is weak for single target sustain and not so impressive single target burst, but dealing 60kk damage per sec against 15 mob is insane and also sustain against +3 mobs is impressive as well.


    cheers

    I need to disagree with that. Also rogue/champion does more AOE damage than rogue/druid. With the 70th elite Disassembly Shadow you hit twice every mob with every AOE skill and you have 5 of it. Some of the skills won't hit 15 mobs yes, but 2 of the 5 will do it and this will do many damage, that every trash group with 15 mobs does not even survive till you can do you last skill. (in our groups. I know we are full golden geared. Maybe the damage will scale in other directions if mobs are living longer)

    yea it does matter of party i guess. my party was killing them in around 7-8 seconds so had plenty of time to use several earth pulse. earth pulse of rogue/druid is maybe a forgotten aoe skill that didn't get a damage nerf for each extra target, like rogue/champion - warrior/rogue, thatswhy it feels quite strong for me.

    the world chico, and everything in it.

    Like 1

    Hi,


    some thoughts about the scout.

    As a scout in general you cannot compare with other classes and loose in any situation (burst, sustain, AOE).

    Right now, after all steps of the class balancing, there is one scout that can nearly reach other classes. But sadly I need to say doing more damage as champ, warrior or rogue (choose best sec class) with lower weapons than the atm best scout (scout/warden) with t18 weapon and better golden gear makes me sad.

    Don't get me wrong. The scout is not useless, but you can do way more damage with same gear but other classes.


    Therefor I suggest following changes:


    Scout/Rogue:

    Change back "Deadly Poison Bite" that it will deal extra damage for every vampire arrow debuff.

    Change "Joint Blow" on this class, that it will consume Energy instead of Focus.

    Increase damage dealt by the 50th Elite "Poisonous Spit" with poison powder. Right now it is some kind of useless to buy those items ;)



    Scout/Mage:

    Change "Wind's Whistle" (60th elite) that it will hit with every offensive skill but reduce it's damage to 100%.

    Scout/Mage should be in my opinion the one AOE Scout. This change will reduce single target and burst damage, but I hope/guess everyone suppose this change.


    Scout/Priest:

    Change Mana Arrows that it will increase the p-atk and m-atk of nearby raidmembers (increase range to 80) by 5%.

    This class is a supporter class, but right now the Mana Arrows are useless.


    Scout/Druid:

    This class has lost his position in my opinion.

    Please change the skill "Focus" (40th elite) that it will increase the p-atk by 100% of range damage.

    Change the skill "Efficiency Guidance" (60th elite) that it will restore 50 rage, focus and energy and remove cooldown of "Devour Blood" that this can trigger every 10 seconds. This will result in 5 rage, focus and energy per seconds. Maybe it is still enough to just remove the CD of Devour Blood.


    Scout/Knight:

    If you want this class to be an off-tank. Please change Holy Strike to scale with range weapon dps and give the skill the range of the range weapon



    Kind regards

    Quote from espar91

    rogue/druid is best aoe burst rogue so far, yes it is weak for single target sustain and not so impressive single target burst, but dealing 60kk damage per sec against 15 mob is insane and also sustain against +3 mobs is impressive as well.

    Basically correct, but this only works if the mobs are stacked in the same place:

    Quote from Snickers0815

    Earth Pulse: It is currently difficult to match multiple targets with the skill if the mobs are not in the same place and you are inside the mobs yourself. That is why it would be good if the area in which you do damage is changed or increased.

    Edit: It would also be helpful if you dont need a target to use the skill like with the mage/druid

    Druid/Warlock

    In advance I have to say that I didn't test this in rofl ,but I probably will tomorrow.


    First and foremost: Sandstorm (1490763): As mentioned many times before, this skill does absolutly no damage (even with 20 points of Nature) and consumes, contrary to it's description, 5 Points of Nature. On any other Druid, and at least in the german translation of this skill, Sandstorm should consume 1 Point of Nature to enhance Sandstorms damage, but it consumes 1 per tick ( So 5 in total). It makes no sense to use a skill that a) doesn't do any damage and b) costs you 5% Poison damage and 5% magical damage.


    To the damage of this class overall I have 2 ideas.


    1) Also mentioned from different people above the only "buff" you can activly use this class has is Body Vitalization. So I suggest that Unity with mother Earth, instead of 10% healing increase, instead increases the magical damage or poison damage of this class. Also I think that Savage Blessing should increase your magical damage (e.g. as it increases HP on Champ/Druid) because although you have much magical attack points your magical damage is rather low.


    2) Give the skills of this class a cast speed scaling as you did with Scout/Warlock. This would increase the damage of almost every skill greatly.


    Another point is that "Earth Arrow"(1490762) as well as "Psychic Arrows"(1490760) have no use on this class at the moment because "Poison Arrow"(1490621) (not sure if this is the correct name :D, with 0 Points of Nature deals more damage than the other 2 with 20 points of Nature.


    Lastly, although I hope this will be solved with the new world boss, I hope in the future there will be a talisman with elemental damage, but even without the elemental damage any talisman would benefit my second suggestion since you can use an additional "curse"-rune.


    Anyway, these are just my opinions on this class.


    Greetings.

    It's time again for CoA - Chain of Arcadia

    Edited once, last by Laisha ().

    Like 5

    Count me in for casting speed scale.

    re: rogue/mage
    I don't understand your feedback -- the only change I requested for R/M is that its AoEs don't see a damage drop-off to the same degree many other AoEs do (such as M/D, M/K, M/Ch... etc.).

    re: rogue/champion
    Yeah, it's single-target burst potential is pretty high and it can also be a very strong supporter. That's why all I requested was making an elite feel less underwhelming and to increase the rate at which it can AoE (while decreasing the damage of the AoE). Outside of begging party members to run FT/SA, it's not much different from other rogues (even while support mechanisms are being used).

    re: rogue/druid
    You're saying 60kk dps to 15 mobs, which comes out to 4m dmg per hit. I'm assuming this is with cooldowns, since the damage is only 328% on Poison Shroud. 4m damage per mob every 4 seconds (cd of Poison Shroud) when mobs have 40m+ HP really isn't that much, especially considering you're using CDs for this comparison. R/wd can easily match that with 4x Power of the Wood Spirit (not to 15 mobs, but most aoe fights have < 6 mobs grouped up anyways) while also buffing pt dmg by 5% and weaving other skills between.

    re: rogue/warden
    Please read what I said if you're going to try to criticize it. I said leather needs more class identity, and sharing one of the most powerful rogue classes with chain goes against that. I'd love to see a DPS comparison between r/wd with chain vs leather gear (same tiers, changing 6/0 dex/patt/deftness vs 6/0 str/patt/endurance) to back up this claim that seems to be made so often. In all the testing I've done in the past, dex/str modifiers make a negligible difference in burst dmg, and minor (5% or less) in sustain. As your damage increases using str vs dex makes less of a difference since it just adds base dmg, rather than scaling with att/dmg.

    re: rogue/scout
    I agree the burst needs some help here -- low blow spam can't compete with Chaos Blade / Dark Soul Smelt white hits at att speed cap. I generally enjoy the class, but after playing it more in boss event think it could use an increase in damage for burst.

    re: tikal mobs as a class indicator
    The point was AoE damage from Enlivened Blade shouldn't drop off so much; the instance I gave as an example doesn't matter, AoE damage went from 400k/hit with Enlivened Blade to 12k/hit while mage/druid were still hitting for 500k+ per hit regardless of the number of mobs being hit.

    - Ravinous

    Quote from Ravinous


    re: rogue/druid
    You're saying 60kk dps to 15 mobs, which comes out to 4m dmg per hit. I'm assuming this is with cooldowns, since the damage is only 328% on Poison Shroud. 4m damage per mob every 4 seconds (cd of Poison Shroud) when mobs have 40m+ HP really isn't that much, especially considering you're using CDs for this comparison. R/wd can easily match that with 4x Power of the Wood Spirit (not to 15 mobs, but most aoe fights have < 6 mobs grouped up anyways) while also buffing pt dmg by 5% and weaving other skills between.


    - Ravinous

    Not with Poison Shroud. With "Earth Pulse". Druid skill

    Quote from xLutinex
    Quote from Ravinous


    re: rogue/druid
    You're saying 60kk dps to 15 mobs, which comes out to 4m dmg per hit. I'm assuming this is with cooldowns, since the damage is only 328% on Poison Shroud. 4m damage per mob every 4 seconds (cd of Poison Shroud) when mobs have 40m+ HP really isn't that much, especially considering you're using CDs for this comparison. R/wd can easily match that with 4x Power of the Wood Spirit (not to 15 mobs, but most aoe fights have < 6 mobs grouped up anyways) while also buffing pt dmg by 5% and weaving other skills between.


    - Ravinous

    Not with Poison Shroud. With "Earth Pulse". Druid skill

    Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. In that case, if Earth Pulse seems to be overperforming, consider adjusting the CD.

    Quote from Ravinous
    Quote from xLutinex

    Not with Poison Shroud. With "Earth Pulse". Druid skill

    Ah, okay. Thanks for the clarification. In that case, if Earth Pulse seems to be overperforming, consider adjusting the CD.

    Better not. Earth Pulse is the filler skill, because the class has no other mana based skill. Also Earth Pulse is a non gcd skill and can be used like Power of the Wood Spirit

    Quote from Ravinous


    re: rogue/champion
    Yeah, it's single-target burst potential is pretty high and it can also be a very strong supporter. That's why all I requested was making an elite feel less underwhelming and to increase the rate at which it can AoE (while decreasing the damage of the AoE). Outside of begging party members to run FT/SA, it's not much different from other rogues (even while support mechanisms are being used).

    this class is making runs faster, so it don't need to be top dps yet it is most of the time.

    Quote from Ravinous

    re: rogue/druid
    You're saying 60kk dps to 15 mobs, which comes out to 4m dmg per hit. I'm assuming this is with cooldowns, since the damage is only 328% on Poison Shroud. 4m damage per mob every 4 seconds (cd of Poison Shroud) when mobs have 40m+ HP really isn't that much, especially considering you're using CDs for this comparison. R/wd can easily match that with 4x Power of the Wood Spirit (not to 15 mobs, but most aoe fights have < 6 mobs grouped up anyways) while also buffing pt dmg by 5% and weaving other skills between.

    are you aware of existence of earth pulse skill? because it is literally same as r/wd potws, but not limited to 6 targets and has no damage loss for each extra target. i am dealing 8kk damage per hit with this skill, and it has no gcd. it is hitting all 15 targets for sure because it is hitting only to targets between you and target, and still having 60kk per sec while bursting groups.


    Quote from Ravinous

    re: rogue/mage
    I don't understand your feedback -- the only change I requested for R/M is that its AoEs don't see a damage drop-off to the same degree many other AoEs do (such as M/D, M/K, M/Ch... etc.).

    why it is requiring an aoe increment if class is already doing great in overall? it don't need to beat everything in everywhere.

    Quote from Ravinous

    re: rogue/warden
    Please read what I said if you're going to try to criticize it. I said leather needs more class identity, and sharing one of the most powerful rogue classes with chain goes against that. I'd love to see a DPS comparison between r/wd with chain vs leather gear (same tiers, changing 6/0 dex/patt/deftness vs 6/0 str/patt/endurance) to back up this claim that seems to be made so often. In all the testing I've done in the past, dex/str modifiers make a negligible difference in burst dmg, and minor (5% or less) in sustain. As your damage increases using str vs dex makes less of a difference since it just adds base dmg, rather than scaling with att/dmg.

    devs already mentioned that they aren't planning to make rogue a 6 dex build months ago, so i don't know what are you trying to say. 90% of server is using 3/3 build for rogue already and that is identity of this class here.

    Quote from Ravinous

    re: tikal mobs as a class indicator
    The point was AoE damage from Enlivened Blade shouldn't drop off so much; the instance I gave as an example doesn't matter, AoE damage went from 400k/hit with Enlivened Blade to 12k/hit while mage/druid were still hitting for 500k+ per hit regardless of the number of mobs being hit.

    how come instance doesn't matter? xD i am playing r/m in rofl and 30-35% of my overall damage is from enlivened blade as most damage, so what is the problem? maybe you are using wrong offhand so it is dealing low damage since its skills are dealing double damage and one is depending on your offhand, similar to r/wl white hits.


    i am still thinking r/m is better than 7/9 of mage combinations in overall, and not in an 2015 instance

    the world chico, and everything in it.